greetings from Germany, unfortunately not in best health condition at the moment…
A friend of mine whom I introduced into seamly 2D begann to work with it recently. and asked me which petternsystem is the source of the known measureents in SeamlyMe.
I know that the patternsystem which I use from Müller und Söhne is not available in seamly 2D,
So I looked through it and couldn find any information.
But I came across some Translation mistakes (the never ending story of the german translation) sorry for that.
Hello, @H.Naehmann. I’m sorry that you’re unwell and hope that you’re feeling better soon.
The Known areas in SeamlyMe were an on-going project since day 1 of the software. @slspencer bought numerous books and extracted all of their measurement areas, divided them into the groups that you see there. The codes that you see there are only the ordering system used for the grouping and so that we can find the measurements - it doesn’t have anything to do with any single patternmaking system.
If you look closely, you will find all of M&S’s measurement areas in the Known measurements, but M&S abbreviates those areas for easy identification when drafting straight from their books. These abbreviations are different for each language that they publish in, so it’s a bit difficult to use their abbreviations in the SeamlyME Known measurements.
If M&S had used the full names of the areas in their instructions, it would’ve fitted into Seamly2D very, very well. However, as it is, you may create your own Custom measurements using their codes.
Hi - i am from Germany too. Also auf deutsch - im Grunde ist es doch kein großes Problem ob bei den “bekannten Maßen” nun als Beispiel Hals Umfang oder Hals Spiegel steht. Zudem hast du ja immer noch die Möglichkeit individuelle Maße/Maß Bezeichnungen zu hinterlegen. Die Namen da dienen - zumindest habe ich das so verstanden - dem Programm eigentlich nur zur Zuordnung - damit das Programm in den Formeln die du dann (hoffentlich) benutzt die Variablen daraus heran ziehen kann um die Linien im Schnittmuster entsprechend deiner maßdatei zeichnen kann. M&S ist zwar recht gut für seamly anwendbar - trotzdem musst du einiges davon an die Software adaptieren - so dass es am ende passt. Du kommst bei einem neuen Schnitt (also einer neuen Konstruktion) eh nicht um ein probe Modell herum. Halt dich also nicht zu sehr an den Formelbezeichnungen fest die M&S vorgibt. Du kannst im seamly die Taille auch “plautze” nennen wenn dir danach ist. Wichtig ist das du am ende weißt was du damit meinst und in der Maß Datei das entsprechende Maß eingibst.
Yes. That’s how it works. Both known and custom measurments are variables that can be used in the formulas. The main diffferences between known and custom measurments are
The known measuement names are translatable.
The custom measurements are not translatable.
Since the known measurments are translatable you can not edit the names or description, but since the custom measurements are not translatable you can edit the name, fullname, and description any way you want.
One of the main reasons for the known measurrements is to create a standard set of measurement names that can be shared so that one person can create a pattern & measurements in German, while someone else can then work with that same pattern & measurements in English. One caveat with using custom measurements is a user may not be able to easily share custom measurments since they won’t translate - like in @My_custom_measuremnt example below.
My recomendation is for at least for actual body measurements that you want to rename, have the custom measurement refer to a known measurement so someone else that speaks a different language can refer back the diagram no’s to know what the measurement is supposed to be.
In German would be the name “u_Br” and the full name “Brustumfang”.
I also wanted to edit the qt_de.qm file. So far i didn’t not figure out how. In case I figure out how to edit the library file and have time i will forward it to Douglas and Grace. They have to decide if they want to implement this.
The known measurement names are not meant to read as real names… it’s a system that more or less describes category_what you’re measuring_where you’re measuring… like height_waist_side. They’re also not meant to be any one pattern making system, but rather generic names.
Using abbreviations is bad practice when translating as it makes it diffcult for someone else to figure out what something translates to. For ex:
You can’t edit .qm files. They are binary files generated automatically from the .ts files when the apps are built. To translate any of the UI or Measurements, one has to edit the .ts file(s) through Qt Linguist… the .ts file(s) then has to be merged through a PR into the main repo, and when it automaticlly builds a new release on Sun, new .qm files are generated. If you wanted custom translations, you’d have to either build the apps on your own
or edit the .ts files and run lrelease on them to produce the .qm files.
Again the known measurement names are meant to be generic, and it makes no sense for us to tailor the names to anyone pattern system. But you’re free to name any custom measurments anyway you like.
I haven’t looked into the M&S/Hofenbitzer systems of pattern making much, although I do have a book or 2 that I delve into from time to time. However, what I’ve done, that I think will work very well for you as well, is, I’ve created a measurement chart using the Seamly measurement areas.
There are some areas that aren’t covered in SeamlyME, like the waistband measurement and distances from the true waist, but these can be covered with the Unknown measurements (and if we chat to @Douglas nicely, perhaps he’ll add them into the Known measurements ).
My thoughts are that since M&S & Hofenbitzer use abbreviations to identify the measurement areas throughout their books (depending on the language that the book is published in), your students will identify the full names used by Seamly to identify them easily while drafting a pattern and those measurement areas are already translated in the software, leaving only a handful of Unknown’s that will need to be translated.
It’s really not that hard to do and your students will be able to see the measurement areas in the images attached to the measurement areas.
Not a problem. Just keep in mind that whatever new measurements we add we have to define a name, full name, which category to put them in with a number, and either
a new or an updated diagram image.
Oh… and while I could use Deepl to translate, it would be best that someone who speaks a given language should translate the new measurements.
@MG2024, if you’re happy with this solution, can you send me a list of all the measurement areas that you would like added, with the details (in both English and German) & an image of the measurement area so that I can do the images in the SeamlyME format, please?
Right now I am working on a book for my students. I am used to work with abbreviations used by Optikon. My students use the Hofenbitzer book. No clue why he though to change the abbreviations as his system is based on Optikon.
My book will include a list with abbreviations of Optikon, Hofenbitzer plus the Seamly2d codes. For better overview in the formulas I will also develop English abbreviations. The drawings for the measurements already made.
When it’s final I will forward the list inclusive the drawings. My goal is to finalize this part until end of the year.
The reason that he changed the codes is probably because those codes belong to M&S and he’d probably be contravening the CopyRight act.
I’d suggest that even if you do use codes to draft your book, that you replace those codes for the actual names of the measurement areas. Most word processing programs do allow for a find & replace which makes it very quick & easy.
Müller & Sohn is very annoying. At our university, M&S are not allowed to teach either because the lecturers are not verified by M&S. That’s exactly the right way for every Hofenbitzer to use it.
I’ll look into whether there’s a copyright on the abbreviations.
Thanks to @Grace I had a chance to look at the M&S book, and I understand the “abbreviations” issue. My solution would be to just create an M&S measurement template which would include custom measurements that mirror known measurements. Once an M&S template is created it can be used to draft using the M&S system. For example I added the custom measurment for the Is or Inseam… which is the known measurment leg_crotch_to_ankle. Then one can simply use @Is or leg_crotch_to_ankle in formulas… which ever they choose.
I don’t think that would apply with US Copyright The abbreviations or measurement names could be considered no different than “ingredients” in a “recipe” … which are not copyrightable. What is coverered under a copyright for a recipe is the baking instructions, photos, illustrations, or personable commentary of the recipe. Put another way… you can’t copyright letters and words, but you can copyright a collection of letters and words put together in a unique order - such as book.
However, as it is, you may create your own Custom measurements using their codes.
