Meeting at K's house

Here is the results of our meeting at your house:

Kim’s list todo:

  1. Build Tape. Document process for Kubuntu
  2. Multithreading in Qt

We discussed the order of importance for changes:

  1. background grid in Draw and Design modes
  2. Measurement, individual
  • individual .vit files contain all measurements
  • improve measurement selection - make it visual
  • implement default filters, create checkboxes:
    • current pattern measurements
    • my Favorites
    • hide zero values
    • pattern system measurements
    • no filter - show all
  1. Measurements, multisize
  • multisize .val file creation needs new dialog box to enable range of sizes
  • additional changes from notes from previous meeting
  1. McCunn Tutorial is marked as ‘Later’, not important for now

@kmf, @slspencer, As promised, I have revamped the measurement entry area on the cloud. This will never replace Tape, which is the only option if you’re off-line, want a dedicated app, or want to manage the .VIT files yourself.

Entering measurements for an individual now gives these options:

That is, you can enter a set of measurements either for a pattern, or for a pattern making system (see separate post about setting those up, but see Design… PM Measurement use).

You can also see the history of measurements for an individual.

When entering measurements I now generate modified SVGs that only displays the path for that specific measurement:


If it would be useful for Tape, I can extract these customised images either as a set of SVGs (G04.svg etc.) or provide the metadata that controls which paths are shown for which images.

Still to do in this area:

  • Download an empty .VIT file for a pattern making system

  • Make the pattern making system / measurement type grid available as an extract for use in Tape. (Assuming that this would be useful?)

  • When entering measurements with respect to a system, allow the measurements to be ordered as per the original system.

I know that @kmf loses internet soon, so if either of those extracts of data or SVGs would be useful then let me know and I’ll make that a priority.


@MrDoo - do you need the .svg &/or .png files for the individual measurements?

I assumed that individual SVGs for the measurements didn’t already exist, so the pattern-cloud now knows how to parse the multi-measurement SVG images and and allows me to pick which paths are relevant to which measurements…

Paths that are not relevant have the option of being displayed feint for guidance.

It the individual files already existing then looks like I wasted a bit of time on that - but it was fun as I’ve not generated SVG before. If these generated images would be useful to @kmf then I can extract them all into a .zip.

I would like to generate copyright information into the SVGs. Are these images copyright @slspencer ?


Dang! You are super fantastico!


I created these, so set the copyright to be LibreFashion and Susan Spencer, 2017. Assigning copyright to LibreFashion is actually meaningless until there is a legal entity named ‘LibreFashion’, but it helps to clarify the context of the images’ intented usage.


I was going to mention that… it also applies to trademarking anything as well… unless that was also put under your name as well. And just to clarify… a trademark does not make a legal entity - it’s a piece of intellectual property owned BY a legal entity.

Short of a sole proprietorship - to have ore than 1 owner would require 1)A Partnership with an agreement & DBA - not very useful for large groups 2)An LLC - again not for large groups 3)An unincorporated association - such as a club, society, fraternal organization - with a mission statement, officers, bylaws, etc OR 4)A corporation - profit or non profit maybe seeking 5013c status. Doing 1, 2, 3, or 4 I would advise anyone to consult a lawyer & accountant. :wink:

Just a note concerning the copyrights… I searched the code tonight for Valentina (and Valentine a typo) to see where the name should be changed and how the copyright notice should be addressed. Not sure how. ??? Within the code & headers ‘Valentina’ & ‘Valentine’ is pretty much in every src file. That brings up a point - UPTO forking off the project the copyright/license is noted as Valentina, with parts using qmuparser, and VPropertyexplorer. Seems to me all the headers should be consolidated to include these… or just removed (technically all that is required is the license file).


would it be reasonable to have a single include file with the header and license information as opposed to inserting a change in every file? I understand that one would still need to “touch” every source file to make the change - hopefully with a script and not manually. It just seems simpler to me that the include file would contain a single source of the information

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@MrDoo I must say bravo to you. I have been scrambling to just do the things I must do before I am incommunicado in a few days so I haven’t taken the time to reply. I did use some of your new features when you still had them on the test fork and it was such an easy way to fix the fact that I had a measurement set that needed to be customized for a pattern. Your tool that shows the specific measurements that are missing and lets one simply fill in the values is just the thing!

While I am cruising the Med I can’t promise that I will get it done, but I will at least be reading code and giving thought to the idea of implementing templates for the tape program and valentina. If anyone starts this and gets ahead of me, I am happy to contribute where I can once I get back to civilization.

The “meeting at K’s house” was a meeting where Susan (@slspencer) actually stopped by my house (my name is Kim) since I live in her travel path as she drove from her home to another city about 160 km south. She and I originally intended her notes to be a private reminder to me since my memory is not 100% reliable. It was a fortunate accident that she posted it publicly because it sparked this discussion.

My primary interest during that meeting was in the discussion of templates. I have put the development of the tutorial on the McCunn patternmaking system pattern blocks on hold because Susan and I agree that properly implemented templates will make the process of creating the blocks, hence the tutorial, much simpler. In the discussion I used a physical template that I happened to have and put it over a printed page. That demonstration made it clear that she and I view templates in the same way. The printed page represents the full measurement set. The printed material that showed through the “template” represent those measurements that are used by a specific patternmaking system.

the page that I put on the wiki shows the definition of the template to be used for that particular patternmaking system. It makes sense to me that that table be represented in XML and that the specific terms on the left side (e.g. “Neck”) be presented to a user of TAPE while that user is capturing measurements specified by their preferred pattern system. Inside the XML version of the template would be the mapping (e.g. G02 neck_circ ) because the libre fashion - valentina program already has the known measurement neck_circ)

I will create an XML version of the McCunn template over the next few days so that anyone who is involved with code changes will understand (and may suggest improvements) to the concept.

Yeah, almost everything that requires a corporate sponsorship is under Seamly, LLC (formed in Sept 2011,a year prior to the good wonderful people at This is my “gentlemen’s agreement”: to hand over everything once we have a legal status. The business side and community side of this project takes up a full time job - which was why Roman was coding and I was travelling, building community, and presenting conferences. Open source projects typically get worldwide recognition when they present at conferences around the world - I’ve been to Shenzhen, Singapore, HongKong, Berlin, Leipzig, Brussels, Vienna, Arnhem, London, Montreal, Brooklyn, and this week I’m in San Francisco. I spend quite a bit of my personal money on this project, including a monthly stipend to Roman up until last month, and haven’t received any money in return. I don’t intend to keep ownership of the assets of this project, it’s just that because we’re “fashion” the typical umbrella organizations like SFF don’t see us as a related entity. This may change soon…we could be legit within a few months, there are opportunities I’m working on. If I publicized all the threads I’ve chased to create a legal organization that would be a forum all on its own…I’ll post when there are actual results so that we don’t all get burnout from things that don’t work out.


Susan, I can appreciate all the work you do… Thank you.

I know what it can be like. A few years back I used to be involved in model, high power, and amateur rocketry, was a founding member of local chapters of the NAR and The Tripoli Rocketry Association, and when I became president I was instrumental in converting that into a NY not-for-profit “Buffalo Rocket Society, Inc.” It grew to about 150 regional members, but there was only a handful of us that did 95% of the work. Just the work I did alone on the website was a full time job. We hosted a huge national launch for TRA, which brought fliers from across the country and a few from across the seas… which did burn out the “handful” of us and while technically the inc. still exists it disbanded not too long after that launch. Plus leading up to that launch our group was dealing with a member of another club that fraudulently used my art work from a previous launch to pursue a servicemark… which is why I know more about TM, SM and ® than I care to. In the end all I ended up with was a folding table and a couple chairs. :frowning:


Yeah, I kind of feel like that here sometimes. @dismine & <Valentinausername withheld by request> basically hijacked this project away from all the people who have contributed and worked on it for years, implying that the only person who counted here was @dismine.

Case in point: Earlier this year when @dismine refused to allow one of the world’s experts in 3D formats to work on Valetina’s 3D export feature, he knew I needed it to feed into my software. Here’s a demo video of what Jasna Rok, XMG, and I unveiled during Berlin Fashion Week: (EpicModeVR) It’s a shame, because everyone in Berlin loved it and wanted it right away! I think @dismine argued with me to shut me down, so that I couldn’t make any money, even though I was offering to pay him for Valentina development similar to <Valentinausername withheld by request>. When I asked him if he liked my work he said he didn’t like it. And from that point afterward, he was rude and ugly to me in almost every email exchange. I just thought he was being a little more grumpy than usual, apparently it was deeper than that. It’s a shame he has this response to the work of others, because @dismine and I (plus @MrDoo, and every patternmaker on this forum) could be making some serious money, <Valentinausername withheld by request> wouldn’t have to continue to pay for the features he wants, we could hire people to code the issues (under @dismine’s supervision), @dismine could work on his sister’s patternmaking business so that it rocks and is globally important, and @MrDoo could be making some serious cash too, as EpicMode would drive demand to this global level. Valentina patternmakers would be in demand, and could be earning good income. And the 3D character developers who want to generate clothing by using Valentina would have the quick workflow they want. Everyone would have what they wanted, including @dismine!!! All we needed were two features first to have a good 3D file export - 1.) DXF-AAMA export ensures that the output is usable and directly related to what is seen in VR 2.) Passmarks defined as matching pairs, similar to home sewing tissue patterns, so the pieces can be sewn together in 3D. Roman had huge arguments with me about these features, plus his argument with Kim Kulling over the 3D export feature. Roman doesn’t care about anyone making money from this project, apparently he is the only one who should benefit, plus a few specially chosen users like <Valentinausername withheld by request>

More data to prove this point, three years ago: MTailor wanted a command line feature, and Roman said no. So MTailor made a fork of the code (because they were making patterns by hand at the time, and wanted to use Valentina, so they took it and we got nothing.) So I then hired someone from Upwork to do it because I figured it would be useful later on for automated online catalog sales (eg Roman’s sister’s patternmaking business) but not in time for MTailor to decide to spend their massive investment money on Valentina. And there have been several other examples of companies contacting us, but Roman’s response was typically to become disgruntled and disdainful, so they went away.

At any rate, there are many good programmers (some on this forum) who are not so emotional. Patience and respect is a virtue, even in business, and in software development. It’s unfortunate to have to provide more and more details about this situation, but people have more and more questions. At this point, everyone is facing the dilemma of deciding what to do for the future. I don’t typically promote drama by repeating what happened, which is why initially I was terse about the details. Perhaps that wasn’t the best response regarding clarity and future viability, but it kept the drama to a minimum.


Thank you for sharing more details, it helps to understand more about the story of the project, why some things (did not) happened and what opportunities (were unfortunately not taken) thanks to your great work. I must say I didn’t realize you traveled that much and attended so many conferences! I read a lot in the forum but it seems there is still a lot I didn’t grasp. Plus I use myself Valentina/LibreFashion just to do some clothing/accessories for myself DIY-like , so I tend to think that most of the users will be like me which is so incorrect! The biggest part will be professionals.

The 3D stuff seems to be so thrilling!

Right now I don’t develop anything, it feels a bit like in a limbo after the fork and the name changing. I should just go on were I stopped with the tiled printing.

Although I don’t really like doing web development at home because I do it 40hours a week at work, maybe I could help with the website in case you need some help.

Sorry that this hasn’t much to do with the original subject!

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Just off the cuff… can we change the terminology to passmark -> notch? I have no clue where the term passmark came from, but it does not reflect what most people think of when they think notches.

My partner is more intrigued and familiar with the 3D than I am… but I’m sure when it matures enough it will be useful with our costume shop, where patterns I draft in LF could generate a 3D model for certain clients / designers / directors to visualize with.

Even though it’s still time in front of computer screen, I’m using getting back into some programming as a break from the photo, video & audio editing that I’ve done as a side to work non stop for the past 5-6 years… where it’s gotten boring trying to put a new twist on the same old music demo videos.

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I am also excited about using 3D to help a director visualize.

The way I found Valentina in the first place is because I was investigating 3D printing, I printed several 3D 1/8 scale dolls and had visions of dressing them to demonstrate how different styles would or would not work well on different body types. This is very common when a director casts a big musical with a chorus of 30+ people. Of course the time between casting and the show opening is always too short and as a community theater it is a challenge for the actors and costumers to connect early in the process.

To help directors visualize the problem, these are the female 1/8 scale models that I show. The point is that bodies come in vastly different sizes and shapes and some people will not be able to sing well if the feel ugly on stage.

You know… we all seem to be talking about taking LF into the third dimension and it struck me that the models don’t necessarily have to be human. For example, someone could use it to make canine costumes, using a dog model, or upholstery, using a couch or chair model. While that would make the coding and data structures more complicated, it would drastically open up the potential client base.

There is a designer in Madrid who uses LF for upholstery.

Also, just to put everyone’s mind at rest…@dismine was NOT banned from this forum.

I only reduced his rights so that he couldn’t send private messages, because I received complaints about this. But I think that because he deleted the original repo, he probably shouldn’t get admin rights back to this forum. It would be sad if this forum were deleted.

I always wanted Roman to make money from Valentina, and I’m sad that I couldn’t afford to pay him more than $400/month, because he deserved more than that. No one was trying to use him in any way, I was travelling everywhere getting interest for corporate sponsorship, etc.

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