I should note I discovered that the apps already has a “templates” directory started. It has Aldrich’s womens and All measurement templates. Thing is these are kinda of buried in a tables->template directory. TABLES? huh? Of course I ALWAYS look for templates in a tables folder. Maybe the “measurements” folder would make more sense? Just sayin RT. < sigh >
BTW… IMO it should be alldrich_womens_template.vit and all_measurments_template.vit. Why? 1)I’m looking for Aldrich… not T… left TO right. A before T. 2) English… it’s a measurement template not a template measurement. 3) ALL folder / filenames should be lower case. Do that and you won’t have case issues.
but if you notice there is no diagram and the name will not be translated. The way Qt handles translations there’s no way to translate variable text input by the user. Only hard coded text designated as translatable, and only if a translation for the chosen gui language is provided in a translation file will text be translated… or more specifically “replaced” on the fly.
I know that several of the men’s systems I’ve used refer to “chest” or “chest scale” (which a lot of the rest of the draft is based on) … is really the bust circumference ./ 2… as you’re (generally) only drafting 1/2 the pattern. I happen to use the 2 custom measurements. @ChestScale and @Ease… So for ex: Bret - who has a 49 chest we get chest scale of 24.5" plus 1" ease = 49" + 2" ease OR 51". BTW - I also use @WaistScale and @SeatScale.
That being said…in a system like the Supreme System (Red or Blue) by Croonberg, it might not be a bad idea to include customs like the chest scale, as it would probably simplify things for some - even though it’s not translated. It avoids formulas like (bust_circ/2)/6 vs @ChestScale/6. It also would not preclude a user from using bust_circ/2.
Plus if you note below the Aldrich women’s template uses several customs… so there’s already a precedent. I would argue though I’d rather see measurements like @ChestScale/6 or @Bust_12 rather than @M_1 with a formula of bust_circ/12. In other words… abbreviating custom names is useless. Like WHAT is M_1 ? It’s not 1976 where we need to save every bit we can. Spell out the name.
BTW… It should be noted there are errors in the Aldrich template file… there is no @M_A23 or @M_J10 customs. Hmmm… I wonder how many years has this been like this - hiding?
I feel like I am creating more work for you just in answering these questions,
The full name does not come up as seat for me, nor can I change the full name field.
I may be missing something?
Yes, but I must give a value for the hip circumference so I can use the formula of hip_circ. I was hoping to leave all values at zero, but I could give them all a different value- maybe 10?
I am trying to make the measurement file specific to
how it is listed in the book, but for instance, I cannot just add “half back” alone because the formula for across_back_b is needed first so you can add across_back_half_b
Any way to get around this other than a custom measurement?
I think in systems that relied on using the tailor’s square and use scale or working scale, yes, those must be included as customs because they are basic to following the draft.
I think if people are trying to use a period draft and don’t understand the basics of period men’s drafting, it will make more sense to them to look for @chestscale and make the formula reflect the math. So @workingscale would have a formula of chest_circ/3 + 6"
Agree! leaving it named as M_1 is not helpful.
Just noticed:
The O14 measurement diagram and its descriptor (to wrist) does not match the information below (to elbow)
Wouldn’t it be better to just use the 1st size measurements in the series?
Ok, so I work slightly differently here… I put these into the variables, especially the Ease, because those are things that I could easily change according the the pattern I’m making. For instance, if I’m making a blouse from my basic bodice, the back ease would be 5cm while if it’s a jacket, it would be 12cm.
I can understand why one would put the scale in the .vit table, but there are so many different scales, that it would only bloat the measurement file and the loooong list of codes to choose from… - and I’ve seen this in some pattern systems where they refer to scale 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. - so I also put them into variables.
That said…
The idea behind choosing your pattern system in the Preferences in SeamlyMe was so that the actual code names of the different measurement areas would change to the Pattern System used, so that hip_circ would display as seat when Aldrich is selected and likewise in Seamly2D… even if the preferences in SeamlyMe is set to Aldrich, if you change the pattern system in Seamly2D, then the code names should change accordingly.
So… What I’m thinking…
Wouldn’t it be better to create a spreadsheet of all the codes running vertically with all the mentioned pattern systems running horizontally and the name used in the books in the code/system column?
This spreadsheet would be of help in getting the names to change in the preferences AND in creating .vit templates, as well as helping newbies to find the areas needed according to their systems (if it’s uploaded onto the wiki).
Yes, but by putting the “Chest Scale” (Or Breast) in a pattern as variable you have to do that every time you create a new pattern. If it’s a “template” measurement you just need to load that template to be able to use the Chest Scale / Breast measuerment. Besides… it’s not really a “scale” measurement - you’re not scaling anything. It’s just 1/2 the bust / chest / breast measurement that many of the (mens) systems use. It’s a lot easier to just use the system’s term (Cheast Scale, Breast, Chest) knowing that it’s already assumed it’s the bust measurement divided by 2. BTW… the waist and seat (hips) are used in a similar manner.
Besides… how can you define a ChestScale variable as bust / 2? You can’t Without a ChestScale measurement you’re stuck with for ex: “from A to B is 1 /6 Breast.”… then having to use bust / 6 / 2… or bust /12. It’s much clearer just to define ChestScale or Breast as bust / 2… then use ChestScale / 6 or Breast / 6.
Agreed:
Ease is a different story and maybe it makes more sense to use a variable for it. For example if I had to print out 6 different size jackets, and need to change the ease from 2" to 3"… it would be easier to change 1 variable, than it would 6 different actor’s measurement files. To be honest… when I created that measurement file it was back when the “variables” were still called “increments”. Had it been called variables from the start it might have been more obvious to use a variable to me for ease.
In almost all of the men’s wear drafts of a certain vintage the ease is not separated out so simply. Plus they include seam allowance, but not everywhere, unlike the women’s blocks which are nett and are more transparent with placement of ease. More modern drafts(Aldrich) are based on the older drafts but with new calculations or wording.
The drafting process use, 1/3 of the chest on the square (sometimes they call it scale) plus 1/2” or 1/8 waist on the square, etc. Square being the tailor’s square, which is marked out In those fractions.
I kind if thought that was the intent.
If you create a new file, you click on information which allows you to choose a patternmaking system (which are already listed) and it magically uploads the template of the system’s required measurements.
I can work on a spreadsheet if that is more useful rather than individual measurement files based on separate systems.
Would still need a .vit for each system. Unless I misunderstand, I think Grace is thinking of creating a spreadsheet of the known measurements, and each system… where you can “check” each measurement that is used in a system column. Like comparing which features are included with different versions of a product.
Although theoretically if a master spreadsheet is produced, it could be possible to then “export” a .vit for any given Pattern System.
Hmmm… it could be possible to code a Pattern System manager, where a Tablewidget is used to store the measurements & systems, and you simply check the cell to include that measurement in a system. But… by the time I did that, others could hand create a .vit for each system.
I had to take a second look today being more awake… and I’m still baffled. I screen capped the “hip_circ / seat” measurement the other night. from a build that was just compiled… and it now shows up as “hips / Hip circumference”. ??? Inexplicably the measurement file was not converted to a newer ver, - where apparently changes were made to some names… like hip_circ became hips… etc.
That being said… IMO it’s an oversight to remove the term “seat” as next to waist, rise and inseam, it’s the one of the most common terms when speaking of men’s pants. I think it’s a gender thing… where with men it’s “seat” and with women it’s “hips”.
No… you are correct. You can’t edit the full name or the description. At least the fields should be greyed out to indicate you can’t edit them.
Update… I got (part of) it… I changed the gui language to French to see what fields are being translated, and then switched back to what I thought I had before “American English”. Canadian English translates as “hip_circ”, American Engliash as “hips”. Both still display “hip circumference” which doesn’t explain why I had “seat” before??? And it’s not editable so I don’t think I could have changed it?
An off the cuff idea is we could create a “tailor’s” set of translation files…
Well I’ll be damned… Don’t know how I missed it, albeit most of my time has been spent on the Seamly2D app… there IS an Open Template menu item in SeamlyMe - it defaults to the “template” directory you set in the prefs. IMO the distributions need to place the templates in the measurements folder and not the app->tables->templates folder.
That being said, when you open a template you are prevented from “saving” it - you must “save-as”. Deja vu.
Here are a few that I created way back when I was checking everything out, they have measurements attached & some are multisize & some have unknown measurements when I couldn’t find something to match the description:
Something that I’ve just thought of, while we’re on the subject…
As you can see, I work with various pattern systems, especially when helping people here on the forum. So my question is… Shouldn’t the pattern system be specific to the measurements/pattern file? Rather than a preset in the programs?
It’s totally not necessary, just my thoughts. I think that a ‘map’ of the different systems will assist in the programming, creating templates and for newbies who are looking for their specific measurements.
I will NEVER forget how I searched & searched those lists when I was starting out
That’s what I did for all the tools so I’d have something to refer to with all the file, class, icon, tags, etc… to eliminate things like a tool being called Point on Line and it’s icon being called cut.png.
Well currently the pattern system pref doesn’t do anything. My idea is to use it to simply set the default file that shows up in the Open Template dialog… just to save some scrolling and/or mouse clicks in the file dialog if you use a particular system all the time. You would still have the option to select another template.
Yes, it does make life easier when you have a map. I’m also thinking that a spreadsheet of the codes can also be used to gather their names in all the different languages, for the translations, but that’s again, a mammoth task on its own.
Yes… some how a given template file needs to be associated with a given pattern system… assuming there is a template. Ideally we would have a template for every system. But again the pref would not select the actual file, but rather suggest which template to open for the currently selected pattern system.
In other words… A user could select the Supreme System/ Croonberg in the prefs, and without having to know what template file to open, when they goto Open Template in SeamlyMe, the supreme system filename is preset in the file dialog. And the user simply needs to click ok. If they want to they could use the file dialog to select the Aldrich mens template… and / or go back and change the default pattern system.
In other words it’s a way around having to hard code writing out a template for a given system. It’s more flexible in that if a change needs to be made, just the associated template file needs to be changed without recompiling the app.
Or… one could just use the allmeasurements template.
Yes, that would be really handy for newbies. However… As I see it, the pattern system also affects the name of the codes, so… while selecting the system at the start, which will bring up all sorts of preferences, it will also give you the correct name that is in the book, while you are actually making the pattern per the instructions, so that you don’t have to guess if you have the correct measurement when using the formulas.
So it’s actually much more than just selecting a template.
With this in mind, I’m thinking that if one decides to try a different pattern system… Wouldn’t it be better if the preference changes when you change the measurements file? So that one is calling apples, apples & not pears? As you mentioned before with the hip_circ/seat?
Ich habe hier die Disskussion verfolgt. Meine Erfahrungen sind folgende:
Ich arbeite mit keinen der Vorlage:(
Maße und Messungen sind so individuell, für mich sind in den Vorlagen viel zu viele Messungen, die nie gebraucht werden. Oft stiften diese nur Verwirrung - besonders dann, wenn man mit der Mustererstellung nicht so vertraut ist.
Vielleicht wäre es eher sinnvoll auf wirklich relevante Maße hinzuweisen und das anlegen und berechnen von Hilfsmaßen, die bei der Mustererstellung notwendig sind und manchmal auch variieren können, näher zu erläutern.
Yes, I think if people are making patterns by following a set of instructions from a particular book, it is incredibly helpful to only have those specific named measurements listed and formulas pre set up to make the process less daunting.
Agree!
The tailoring terms are often left off in favour of women’s pattern drafting terms. The common terms of chest, inseam, outseam, seat would be useful for menswear drafting.
noting:
The section O: Men& Tailoring includes waist circumference as does the section in circumference and arc, but not chest because it was determined bust in circumference area was sufficient, which is fine, but not consistent.
Good, I was thinking I was missing something!
I have zero, none, nil, no knowledge of coding at all. I don’t understand a lot of the parlance either so I am often worried that the obvious is invisible to me. If that makes sense.
uploads the template of the system’s required measurements.
