"Pattern Making System" question

A curiousity question mostly.

I have been reading through the Tape_EBOOK and the user manual for Seamly me.

I can see that when Seamly Me opens and you click on new file, you can then see measurements as well as Information. Within “information” there is a field to indicate a pattern making system. I don’t quite understand what the pattern making system would be used for. Does that have a function other than indicating/reminding that you are going to use a certain system to make a pattern? Is it supposed to link to those sizing charts on the relevant pages from the books, or is it supposed to automatically check the known measurements that are used in the system?


As I recall, it’s supposed to “automatically check the known measurements that are used in the system,” & give them the “Full name” used by it, but the programming never got far enough for it have any “function other than indicating/reminding that you are going to use a certain system to make a pattern.”



Thanks, I couldn’t seem to make it “do” anything but I am still exploring the nooks and crannies of the system to see if there are things I can put to use.


I had been wondering the same thing, but had no need for it. Thanks for asking. :-))

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Yes, it only changes the name and full name of the codes to those used by the different systems.

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I don’t tknow the full history, but I gather this was another one of those cases where RT was not concerned with certain features of the application - some of which deal directly with actual pattern making. Anyhow…

Maybe we should think of removing the Pattern Making System items in the Prefs dialog until such time as it’s fully implimented? It’s kinda of one of my pet peaves of adding just snippets of a feature instead of fully fleshing it out before adding it to the app. This is even worse, because it’s NOT even a feature It’s like the cardinal sin of putting “Under Construction” on a website. It only confuses users. I know the Pattern Making System confused me.


I was surprised by the number of texts referenced there including the page numbers where I assume one would find the measurement charts. The list is interesting, perhaps it belongs in a resource area instead?

For out of print books, out of copyright books, the measurement table could be included.

But that also sounds like work and time that may be better spent elsewhere.

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LOL, I’d rather you didn’t because, even if it doesn’t work as it should, for a person learning from a book, it does help if the names and codes are the same as in the books. And I can vouch for that, because when I was learning, all the measuring points in different names was really confusing.

A few of the measurement charts have been uploaded onto the pattern cloud for people to download if they’re interested. I know that I uploaded the Aldrich Women’s chart.


I’m not talking about removing all the measurement names… just the drop down of selecting a Pattern Making System in the prefs. All it does is save the PMS name in the pattern file. I assume the idea was to select a system and it would automagically create an empty measurement file based on the required measurements for that sytem. The only thing it does right now is provide a list of books to look up, and IMO that should not be a function of the app, but rather a topic on the forums or an info file included with the app.

While we’re on that subject though… lets spitball a little. Assuming the idea of the PMS is to create a measurement template… would it not make more sense as a menu item in SeamlyMe? Say something like New ->Template that creates a new measurement file based on a selected PMS template? An additional idea would be to have the option to load a PMS template from a Spash / Startup screen… much like the Presonus DAW I use for audio recording does. From the startup dashboard you have the option to load for example a template - like a 16 track stereo mix. It makes no sense in the prefs? Would that mean you have to open the prefs everytime to change the system used? Also the option to save custom templates should exist… where you could add your own measurements / variables to an existing template.


Also the option to save custom templates should exist… where you could add your own measurements / variables

Currently I am exploring the template idea, because I have my own drafting methodology, and I would love to make a template for this. The issue I am running into atm is that I use some proportional formulas, either directly or as a check against the actual measurements. If I have height and I want to leave the value at 0 for the moment, I can’t enter nape to waist back as height /4 until I give height a numeric value.

just an aside-why isn’t chest included in the men’s section? Waist is in both the women’s area and the men’s sections.

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Here are some topics from way back:

I can’t find one that isn’t so very old (about 2 years ago) where @slspencer went into short detail about what the idea is behind this facility, but basically it came down to that it would load up all the measurement areas used in that system with the names as that system calls them (if I’m not mistaken).

Perhaps one could have your main pattern making system selected in the main prefs & override it in the pattern prefs? On the other hand, I’m wondering how many people actually know that it’s there until they’re pretty clued up on creating their patterns and start exploring other things that Seamly offers, that they could possibly use.

And it’s only really useful to people, like me, who have only discovered that learning pattern making is possible after finding Seamly, find a book & start learning. And the list of codes becomes very over-powering trying to decipher which ones the book is asking for. So I recall that having the names of the measurement areas helped me a lot when I was learning. Seasoned pattern makers understand all the measurement areas by instinct, no matter what it’s called.

I also remember wishing that I could load a template & just enter the measurements, but that’s just laziness on my part and since I have created my own standard measurements file, I don’t need to do that anymore.

I think @slspencer will know best what is needed in this department. My head goes into overdrive looking at all the different scenarios. :disappointed_relieved:

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Yes, at a point, we were trying to get the list of codes a little shorter and I think it was decided that the women’s Bust or HighBust measurement could double up as the men’s chest measurement.

Once again, we enter into the troubled pattern making system dilemma because in some pattern making systems, the high bust measurement is called the chest measurement and I think this played a role in the decision.

To tell you about the ‘Men’s Section’, these are mostly measurement areas unique to the older methods for making patterns for men’s suits that are still used today for really high-end bespoke suits and costumes for film & theatre.

I have a work-around where I open my already created measurement file and just change the values for the next person and save it to that person’s name.

I use the Variables Table for the proportional formulas and I’ve also been thinking about using the 8/9 head theory for height measurements, just to check it out, but I’ve been a bit lazy since I made my basic tables that work beautifully :grin:

I would suggest that you enter an average height into the Height measurement that you can change once you have the person’s height.

Hint: Once you have your pattern created, you can always create a new individual measurement file and import all the measurements used in the pattern. You can import them by going to Menu > Measurements > Import from a Pattern. You will then need to point to the pattern that you wish to import from (the pattern needs to be closed in Seamly2D). All values will be zero, even the formulas, so you will need to enter them.

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I pretty much do the same thing… using a measurement file I created using the most common measurements used by several of the professional & college theatres we work with. Which to be honest will have most measurements needed to use most systems.

That being said… if a PMS template system was used, and say you can across a pattern you wanted to draft from the Supreme System - The Blue Book of Men’s Tailoring… by selecting that template you would be guaranteed to have all the neccessary measurements in the form.

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I have that book on PDF. I really must get down & work my way through it, since you seem to love it so much :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Doing period men’s suiting and military ware is something our shop specializes in… so I kind of lean on that book when something calls for the “drop shoulder” period of clothing. It also deals with drafting patterns for stout men - which you will never get a normal pattern to grade and fit right. It does take many read throughs to get past the older style of English., and for adjusting drafts based on a mans height. BTW… he updated the book - The Suprememe System - The Red Book of Men’s Tailoring, where it contains many of the same styles, but updated to a non dropped shoulder. It’s also available at archive.org as a PDF. If you can believe it I printed out both books. :open_mouth:

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Yes, I have that one, too. I’ve been meaning to work my way through the Blue book first & then later through the Red book, but every day life keeps interring :slightly_smiling_face: and I don’t have any demand for this type of clothing… No theatres, no cos-play, just easy-fit clothing for farmers :grin:

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the measurement charts on the cloud are useful to some of us.



So I have not had a chance to check out what is already available- will do that soon.

I looked over the list of Pattern making systems and checked off the list according to the books I have or have access to. I counted about 20 of them. Some I have are not listed there.

To confirm what is desired or useful to people, it is a measurement file created in Seamly Me containing the measurements pertaining to a specific system of drafting. No actual numbers applied?


Exactly. Just need the “known” measurements for the system, with at least a value of zero, as I don’t think the “formula” value can be null. The measurements would just be placeholders until a user fills in a value.

Hmmm… I wonder if we could then tie in the selected pattern making system (intentionally avoiding the use of the abbreviation PMS) pref to default to specific template vit’s?.. rather than hard coding them. And just spit balling here… what if when you select File->New for a project the user is presented a dialog asking what - if any - measurement template to use? Defaulting to the selected pattern system pref. This is how many of the audio DAW’s and video editors I use operate. The dialog could also present the “last used” template as an option… as well as “other”.


One thing I noticed right off the bat is the naming of measurements in many pattern systems is not the same as the named known measurement contained in Seamly Me. For instance Metric Pattern cutting for menswear uses “seat” but the known measurement is hip circumference. I can add a custom measurement called “seat” but I need to add a value so it is useable.

There is no way to Make a note to the known hip circumference measurement to indicate that in this draft it refers to “seat”

Is this an issue to be concerned about?

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