"Insert node tool" Improvement Discussion

Continuing the discussion from Add point to curve: This seems like a big enough question to deserve its own thread :slight_smile:

On the one hand I think that included should be the default, but as @Grace pointed out below, in the current state of affairs that would be messy in its own way.

On the upside, that would make it obvious that you have a nodal issue, especially if some outside issue (kids, boss, etc.) came up, distracting one from straightening things out right at the crucial moment. :grin: But I’m not sure that’s a very big up.

  1. On the relatively easy end of things, would be being able to add multiple nodes at once, & have the workpiece tool dialog pop up at once, like it does when the piece is originally traced.

  2. Another idea, which I think might be what you edited in there, is to click the previous node either before, or after the one to insert before any dialogs pop up.

  3. Or start with the node before the node(s) needing inserted, click additional nodes until you click the next already placed node, & then it finishes.

I think that it might also be best to choose which piece to add the nodes to before choosing them, instead of after, (as it currently stands.)

My fancy is that my third idea is the best. :laughing:


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I don’t see why it shouldn’t be possible. Although instead of opening the Workpiece tool->main path Dialog after the nodes are selected, I’d open it first, then it could also allow the option to drag and drop nodes into the path list at the spot you want it.

Yeah… not sure what I was thinking there. The nodes in a draft block are not necessarily in “path” order like they are in a pattern piece, BUT it could be possible to include other nodes in the selection used to identify where to place the nodes to inset… just think it would be too confusing to know you have to include the extra nodes.

I think option 1 is more workable. It’s more interactive, and some what solves the need to go back and forth between modes. BTW… I would apply the same logic to inserting “pins” ( another one of those confusing terms - the correct CAD / Vector drawing term is “anchor point”),… or anything that needs to be selected from the draft block to be applied to a pattern piece.

If some form of option 1 was used, you would have to select the pattern piece to insert into first anyway. Hmm… Which actually brings up another idea… to add the option to select which pattern piece the Workpiece Tool dialog is editing. Adding a combobox for the pattern piece selection in the dialog would allow you to work on / between pieces without having to keep opening & closing the dialog.


But it’s so quaintly sewingish! LOL :grin:

point. The benefits I was seeing might be largely neutralized by the need for additional instruction.


Yeah, that would be nice. (& I think the best term would be whatever term paper-drafters would tend to use for the same function. Whatever that is. However, considering how ubiquitous Adobe Illustrator seems to be, this might be another area in which following their example would not betray the Seamly vision.

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Quaint - So is “pin the tail on the donkey”. Lol

That’s one of the issues with using pin… it takes on a somewhat different “sewing” meaning.

Or Corel Draw, AutoCAD, Optitex, Gemini Pattern Designer, etc, etc… other pattern software like Wild Ginger’s Symetry simply refers to add a “point”.

The pin being… it’s a point. Pun intended. Lol


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ok, so in this case… The tail would be the label & the pattern the donkey :crazy_face:

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Continuing the discussion of the Insert Node(s) tool from:

I changed a routine in the selection of nodes so that now you can select the start point of a curve, the curve, and points on the curve, and it will automatically append the curve after points on the curve OR select the start point, point on a curve, THEN the curve… and it will also automatically insert a curve node before the point on the curve. In other words it doesn’t matter the order you select a curve, or a point on the curve EXCEPT if you select multiple points on the curve, in which case a curve will only be inserted for the point preceding the selected curve… unless I can rearrange some code, in which case it may work with multiple points. :slight_smile:

That being said, there may still be cases where unless one sticks to the clockwise selection order, the curve auto reverse may not work. Which to be honest I don’t see as a big issue as 1) A user has to adhere to the clockwise order when Adding a piece in the 1st place. 2)A user shouldn’t have to rely on inserting a large number of nodes to create a piece.

Also, this update will render an issue moot that Susan created regarding the current Insert Node tool, where the dialog sometimes pops up with an Unknown node. The multiple selection uses a different logic that ignores unknown nodes.


Thank you very much, @Douglas. :star_struck:

Made a few more tweaks. I rearranged the layout with the addition of a status msg box. The tool will now insert or append curves as needed if you include any points on the curve, as well as auto-reversing if necessary.


As seen in the pic, since the starting point of the curve was not included, the direction can’t be determined, so a msg warning warns the user as such.


Where as above, since the start point A3 was included, we can determine that this curve is going counterclockwise and needs reversing.


3 curves on their own.

Then while testing it hit me… since arcs have no start point and always go counterclockwise, Arc’s and ElArc’s always need to be reversed! Simple change to the routine again to always return true for arc’s.


Then one last item caught while testing… if you delete all the nodes in the list, OK is disabled, and your only choice is to press cancel. So we tell the user that.


So I think that’s it for now. I will push this update, and use some more of what I learned here to the Add Pattern Piece tool selection. I’m sure there may be some cases where we’re not catching all possible combinations of selected objects to correctly identify the direction of a curve, so let me know if you find any when this is merged.

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Just doing one last check after merging in the recent Develop… reminded of this senario… where all the points on a curve are included, but the points were selected out of (clockwise) order. While the curves are inserted / appended around the points along the curve, in this case the endpoint A3 is out of order.


So… for now one can just move the node once in the Pattern Piece → main path dialog. In the future I will look at adding the “move” buttons to the Insert Nodes dialog, or maybe to figure out how to auto move start or end point nodes to the proper order. :slight_smile:

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THANK YOU very much and here are at least 20 characters :wink:

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I hope this will improve the work flow, and maybe lessen any confusion surrounding the curve segments and direction. Of course it should be noted that a user still has to figure out where to place newly inserted node in the main path, as they are inserted at the bottom of the list excluded.

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Except for when counterclockwise is clockwise to the direction of the tracing.

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How so?

Arcs only have 1 direction because they are a closed path in essence - there is no start or end point.

Here’s what happens if you try and trace a path between 2 points on the arc… one going one way, one going the other. In both cases you have to reverse the arc to be accepted.

98_99 99_98

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How about as a neckline on the top left corner of the bodice piece?

ETA: When the body of the piece is inside the arc it needs reversed, but when the body of the piece is on the outside of the arc it does not need reversed.

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Hmmm. Since there is no start point the arcs seem to present some different behavior. Think I’m going to revert the always auto reverse for all arcs.



Like @Pneumarian said… in this situation.

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Need to anyways… PR test build failed the “Arc” test. :frowning:


:cry: I know that @Scholli does an arc for the armhole curve that doesn’t need reversing. Perhaps there are others, too, since she put a tutorial on how to do it on here.

This currently only applies to adding nodes, not adding a piece, BUT I eliminated the automatic reverse on arcs. Without a start and endpoint to the arc, it’s not workable.

Also without start and endpoints it also means there is no way to limit inserting / appending curve nodes to only points ON the arc BETWEEN the endpoints - so extra arc nodes may be inserted - unless you make your start and end angles correspond to where you want your endpoints, then it’s not an issue.



I think the long term solution might be to fix the Arc tools to create endpoints(at the start and end angles) - which I believe is something that has been asked for before?


I also would like to have an option to autocreate points at the intersection of any new object with any existing object. I have not tried to think through any unintended consequences this may bring. Perhaps this could be turned on or off in the preferences. The visibility of these points could at least be turned off for those who would find them annoying

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